I noticed that I am the only user so far to create a disambiguation page, and got thinking...
The disambig pages look good and have lots of pictures and eye candy (here's an example: Joe Hardy), but maybe they're a bit to complicated to make. So I suggest maybe that we simplify these pages. Maybe so thing more like the Disambig pages on Wikipedia. Something like this:
This is the Joe Hardy disambiguation page.
It serves to clarify the difference between several closely named or closely related articles.
- Joe Hardy (Original), Joe from the Originals, and Digests.
- Joe Hardy (Casefiles), Joe from the Casefiles, SuperMystery series, and Ultra Thrillers.
- Joe Hardy (Undercover Brothers), Joe as he appears in the current continuity.
- Joe Hardy (1955 TV), Joe as he appears in the Walt Disney TV serials of the 1950s.
- Joe Hardy (animated series), Joe from the Saturday morning cartoon, which ran from 1969 until 1971.
- Joe Hardy (1977 TV), Joe from The Hardy Boys/Nancy Drew Mysteries TV series of the late '70s.
- Joe Hardy (1995 TV), Joe from the short-lived 1995 TV show.
- Joe Hardy (Video games), Joe as he appears in the Nancy Drew video games.
Which takes this to do:
{{disambig}}
*[[Joe Hardy (Original)]], Joe from the Originals, and Digests.
*[[Joe Hardy (Casefiles)]], Joe from the ''Casefiles'', ''SuperMystery series, and Ultra Thrillers.
*[[Joe Hardy (Undercover Brothers)]], Joe as he appears in the current continuity.
*[[Joe Hardy (1955 TV)]], Joe as he appears in the Walt Disney TV serials of the 1950s.
*[[Joe Hardy (1969 TV)]], Joe from the Saturday morning cartoon, which ran from 1969 until 1971.
*[[Joe Hardy (1977 TV)]], Joe from ''The Hardy Boys/Nancy Drew Mysteries'' TV series of the late '70s.
*[[Joe Hardy (1995 TV)]], Joe from the short-lived 1995 TV show.
*[[Joe Hardy (Video games)]], Joe as he appears in the Nancy Drew video games.
A lot less complicated then the current page, which is like this:
{{Disambig
| Gallery =
<big>'''Novels'''</big>
<gallery>
Image:Joe Original.jpg|{{thumbnav|Joe Hardy (Original)|Original continuity|Joe Hardy from the [[original]] books, the [[Digest]]s, and it's spin-offs.|Joe Hardy|Minor=}}
Image:Joe Casefiles.jpg|{{thumbnav|Joe Hardy (Casefiles)|Casefiles continuity|Joe Hardy of the Casefiles coninuity|Joe Hardy|Minor=}}
Image:Joe UB.JPG|{{thumbnav|Joe Hardy (Undercover Brothers)|Undercover Brothers continuity|Joe Hardy as he appears in the most current series.|Joe Hardy|Minor=}}
</gallery>
<big>'''TV shows'''</big>
<gallery>
Image:Joe Disney TV Serial.jpg|{{thumbnav|Joe Hardy (Disney TV serial)|Disney TV serials|Joe Hardy of the Mickey Mouse Show TV serials.|Joe Hardy|Minor=}}
Image:Image Needed.jpg|{{thumbnav|Joe Hardy (1969 cartoon)|1969 Cartoon|Joe Hardy from ''The Hardy Boys'' animated series.|Joe Hardy|Minor=}}
Image:Joe 1977 TV Show.jpg|{{thumbnav|Joe Hardy (1977 TV show)|The Hardy Boys/Nancy Drew Mysteries|Joe Hardy of ''The Hardy Boys/Nancy Drew Mysteries'' TV series.|Joe Hardy|Minor=}}
Image:Joe 1995 TV Show.jpg|{{thumbnav|Joe Hardy (1995 TV show)|1995 TV Show|Joe Hardy of 1995 TV series.|Joe Hardy|Minor=}}
</gallery>
<big>'''Video games'''</big>
<gallery>
Image:Joe Creature of Kapu Cave.JPG|{{thumbnav|Joe Hardy (Video games)|Video games|Joe Hardy of the computer games.|Joe Hardy|Minor=}}
</gallery>
| SeeAlso =
}}
On top of the fact that this is a bit complicated and/or overwhellming, not all subjects have ever been seen in pictures, which wouldn't work very well with the current disambig gallery style.
Anyway, what do you think? Please let me know.
WHLfan (talk to me!) 00:37, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
It would be a pity to see the rather fancy graphical disambig pages go, but perhaps at this early stage of the wiki, it would be better to have something more simple. Even on the Joe Hardy page, there are a lot of red links, and it will likely be some time before we've got enough images to make a fully-functioning graphical disambiguation page for the likes of The Hardy Home. I must shamefacedly admit that I've not bothered adding a disambiguation page for some entries (Bayport station (original) would be the latest example) simply because it seemed like too much work for something which would be largely populated by "image required" boxes and links to nonexistent "quotes" pages.
In short, "I agree". ;p
Paulhassett 08:15, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
- As a sort of a test case, I've added a disambig page in this format for Hardy home. Obviously, since it picks up the current {{disambig}} template, it still has the "A = Appearances · G = Gallery · Q = Quotes" note. Also, I've left off the links to the TV show and video games, figuring these articles are the least likely to ever appear. What's the etiquette for leaving items off a disambig page? Anyone know?
- Paulhassett 12:13, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
There've been a lot of discussions lately on Marvel Database about this style of disambig page. The argument goes, that if somebody who knows almost nothing about the Marvel Universe searches for Iron Man, they want a page about Iron Man, not 50 options that mean very little to them since they don't actually understand the "continuity" thing. But the real comic book fans want all that disambig-ing.
One compromise is to make a sort of overview at the top with a prominent link to the most "common" version of the character and a brief description. Then have all those disambigs below.
Another one is to make "Joe Hardy" be about the most basic Joe Hardy -- eg. the "Original Continuity" one. Then have a note at the top to the effect "This article is about Joe Hardy in the Original Hardy Boys series. For information on Joe Hardy specific to other books, tv-shows and video-games, see Joe Hardy (disambig)." I personally like this option. It seems to me that it gives both the casual visitor and the real fan what they want.
Now I will say that at least for the Hardy Boys the labeling is straightforward -- ie series name, or tv show name, rather than obscure Marvel-universe numbering systems. Which is certainly going to help the casual viewer looking for info a lot. But I think the basic fact of giving somebody who searches for "Joe Hardy" the info they probably want right away is still valid. Why confront them with 20 choices?
Having said all of that (sorry), I'd also argue that images are good, and even better on disambig pages, because once again they help people find what they want quickly. I may not be sure which TV-series I caught on cable last night, but I'll recognize the picture of the "Joe Hardy" I saw. With a text-list I'd have to open all the links to find him. I'd say to use a list disambig page only if you have no images for the subject. -- Wendy (talk) 05:15, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
Wendy, I like the idea of having a simple name ("Chet Morton", "The Tower Treasure") take you straight to an information page rather than a disambig one. We'd need to decide which of the pages was the most basic - it seems obvious to say that "Original continuity" Frank Hardy is the most basic but a lot of new readers are reading the Undercover Brothers and may come to think of "Undercover Brothers Frank" as their default Frank. I'd also say that, rather than having the article "Joe Hardy" be about a particular Joe Hardy, it should redirect to the chosen default "Joe Hardy (X continuity)" page. Perhaps this is what is done elsewhere and was implied in what you said, but I can't go to the Marvel wiki to check - I'd get stuck there for hours and I just don't have the time! :D
As for the style of disambiguation pages - as long as no-one is particularly bothered about having two different styles, I'd be happy to go along with your suggestion about images. In the example I gave, Hardy home, it's less likely we'll find relevant images for each continuity but for characters, images are a definite plus and should be actively sought out!
Paulhassett 07:48, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
I like your idea Wendy of having a basic info summary at the top of the page, over your idea of a "default page". What about something like this? Here:
Joe Hardy is the younger brother of Frank Hardy, working together the Hardy boys have solved hundreds of mysteries, while still in high school. They live in Bayport with their parents, Fenton and Laura, and their aunt Gertrude Hardy.
Joe is considered the more impetuous of the brothers, often jumping to do something, without thinking. Because of the crimes the boys deal with, this can often be dangerous for himself and others.
For further information see:
- Joe Hardy (Original continuity), for Joe from the Originals, and Digests.
- Joe Hardy (Casefiles continuity), for Joe from the Casefiles, SuperMystery series, and Ultra Thrillers.
- Joe Hardy (Undercover Brothers continuity), for Joe as he appears in the current continuity.
- Joe Hardy (1955 TV continuity), Joe as he appears in the Walt Disney TV serials of the 1950s.
- Joe Hardy (1969 TV continuity), Joe from the Saturday morning cartoon, which ran from 1969 until 1971.
- Joe Hardy (1977 TV continuity), Joe from The Hardy Boys/Nancy Drew Mysteries TV series of the late '70s.
- Joe Hardy (1995 TV continuity), Joe from the short-lived 1995 TV show.
- Joe Hardy (Video games continuity), Joe as he appears in the Nancy Drew video games.
This is a disambiguation page.
It serves to clarify the difference between several closely named or closely related articles.
Notice the info given is the same throughout all the continuities (except for the 1977 TV show, in which Frank often seems more "act first think later" then Joe), and gives the casual reader what they want to know...and if they do want more all they have to do is click one of the links below.
I like having images too, but because The Hardy Boys isn't a comic book, some characters just don't have enough images for them (e.g. Laura Hardy, Chet, and as already mentioned the Hardy home). Maybe we should have images but use them in a way so that we don't need them (with the current gallery format we do).
WHLfan (talk to me!) 17:55, 7 August 2008 (UTC)